FEMININITY REDEFINED
FEMININITY REDEFINED
FEMININITY REDEFINED INTERVIEWS WILLY VAN ROOY
Monday, January 12, 2015
Willy van Rooy. It’s strange how few have heard this name. She was one of the first to carry the title of topmodel and pave the way for topmodels today. She worked with Helmut Newton, was on the cover of Vogue and designed for major fashion brands. Even those who do know her name usually have no idea what a rich and amazing life story this woman possesses. Success always seems to come easily to those who observe those who are successful, be it in personal or professional realms. Yet, Willy’s reality is far from it: she became successful because she decided to become successful and focused on making it a reality.
In those times, doing all she was doing was even more difficult than it is today. Women were taken even less seriously, culture was changing rapidly, and stiff and old-fashioned values of many centuries had given way to more open-mindedness. Willy not only navigated those stormy waters with great success, but also was smart enough not to get damaged while doing so. She is still happily married to a man she has been with for more than 40 years, is a mother, grandmother, artist and designer. Her happiness is still growing, and as the years progress she grows even more beautiful and talented.
Isn’t real success measured in the amount of good and love we have present in our lives? Simplicity is always genius, as I always say, and Willy embodies this without much fuss.
Femininity Redefined is therefore very proud to present this interview to its readers, once again in hopes of inspiring...
FR: What are the first associations that jump into your mind when you hear the word “femininity”?
WvR: [laughs] A feminine woman fighting for equality.
FR: What is a feminine woman according to you? What is the first thing you notice in a woman? What do you find a very important quality for a woman to have?
WvR: First thing I notice is her attitude. Is she free? A feminine woman is a woman proud to be a woman and knowing she is worth as much as any man and yet also knows she is the half of which two make one! The most important quality for a woman is to be feminine and know who she is.
FR: When I first came across you, I was deeply impressed by the power, authenticity and character shining through you. You are a topmodel, and you’ve worked with fashion’s finest photographers and designers. How did that work influence you as a woman? In daily life?
WvR: As a model you play a role, a role you decide, something you want to express, and if you have the chance to find the photographer who clicks with that…something comes over. In daily life I was the same but expressed it in a different way, I was a family woman, a wife, a mother and all that comes with it, but one is the same person, it does not change or influence your character as far as I'm concerned. Being a model was never a big deal for me although I enjoyed it but it never kept me away from my true nature. I would disappear for a year or months at a time to go and discover the rest of the world and be with family and friends and dedicate time to other things I love.
FR: You were just 21 years old when you graduated at the Academy of Fine Arts, Department of Fashion, filled your suitcase with your designs and moved from Holland to the “Swinging London.” That’s where you also got introduced to photographer Helmut Newton, jumpstarting your amazing topmodeling career. Did you ever dream of being a topmodel? Or was that simply a lucky coincidence?
WvR: When I finished my studies I had just turned 21 which for me meant I was finally free. As I spent my time in an orphanage from the age of 9 and was controlled until I reached the age of 21 when one is legally a grown-up and responsible for oneself. As soon as I finished my studies I went with a friend on a trip from Holland to Japan, all over the world, hitchhiking or using any transport that was available in countries like Afghanistan or Iran (then Persia) or India. It maybe took almost a year to get to Japan and the free feeling to travel like that, stay anywhere you like and leave when you like, is the best feeling you can imagine—nothing and no one to stop you and everything is new and amazing. I lived in Japan for a year and a half or so doing TV commercials and some modeling because a modeling agent approached me in the street. Then on my way back, over the world again to Holland, I did a bit of modeling. But Holland is a small country and a bit behind in that time for anyone with a different view. It's then that I decided to go to London and decided to take it by storm. So I prepared a photo book with all pictures in my own clothes and all the pictures my friend and I took and printed in a Barcelona hotel bathroom. Because I love fashion, made all my own clothes and knew what I wanted them to look like…and indeed, I took London by storm. It was I who asked the chief editor at Vogue to meet Helmut Newton because I simply knew that it would work. Always loved his pictures and I think if you like something a lot it works the other way around too.
FR: How different was the modeling scene at the end of sixties and beginning of seventies compared to today? Were as many girls dreaming of a career in modeling as they are now? Was there also a bigger diversity in the models’ shapes, ages, sizes?
WvR: Yes, there is a big difference. Now it is the dream of many girls or young women to become a model as it has become one of the most desirable jobs—lots of money and travel and popularity. In the late sixties, some ignorant people saw it as a low girls job. It was more difficult in a way too: they were not so open about looks and style and we did not have marvelous, talented make up artists and hairdressers around. We had to do it all. And another big difference is that they expected you to look like a different person all the time so you would not become too recognizable. So we carried wigs and stuff to change our image. Now it is the contrary and models are known by name all over and they can be much more themselves and get paid a lot more. The more they appear, the better. So in other words models were not that powerful by far, but let's say some of us paved the way.
FR: What was it like to work with the visionary Helmut Newton? How was he on the set? Did you embody his vision of you, tell you to crawl into a character, or did he prefer to photograph you simply the way you were in that moment? How did the creative process and exchange take place? Did you also have any creative input? I can imagine you were also his muse, not just a friend and a model he loved to work with?
WvR: Helmut Newton was great fun to work with and I guess I embodied the vision he had of the picture he wanted to make at that moment. Before the shoot he would tell me more or less what his plans were and once dressed for the part it all comes by itself. It's a sort of relation you have with the camera and through the camera. Of course there is a creative input on the part of the model, the model is like an actress or a dancer for the moments she is in front of the camera. It's a give and take, like with everything that’s in harmony. Not that it was always easy; at times the shoots could be difficult in the sense it was not always that easy to express what he wanted to express and at the time he was very avant-garde and it happened a magazine or publicity would refuse his work... funny, isn’t it?
FR: Were models more like muses, in those days anyhow?
WvR: I have no idea; I think it's the same. How is one to know whether one is a muse to someone? This has to be asked the person she or he is supposed to be a muse to, but with distance of time you can simply see it and judge for yourself.
FR: It seems that in the past the more personality and character a model possessed, the more she was celebrated. Is this observation correct? I mean, those women truly spoke their mind and were unafraid to do so! And never apologized, either. Now, models seem to be terrified to even object to the lack of fundamentals like food and water being present on the set, for they are terrified of losing jobs and opportunities and being perceived as “difficult.” I find this reality troubling, as it becomes more and more apparent that a model is only valued for her exterior, which needs to be flawless and have just the right size, instead of building on content, courage, intelligence, passion and uniqueness. Why I find it especially troubling is because young girls take it as an example. What are your thoughts on this?
WvR: There are cases in any time, and if you are talking about young girls who want to be models that are very young, coming from poor countries and have no ideas of their own, maybe it’s true. You know, it is basically the same now and then and always but the "top" has nothing to do with that. Young girls like any person should make up their own minds. You know it has been the same always, in movies, modeling and everywhere. It all depends on the person, and if we start worrying about too much of that the end is not in sight. It's a pity the media is so one-sided, and we don't hear much about the fact that in the end it is more important to be a beautiful person than to have a beautiful exterior. On the other hand, I understand that a model has to have a certain look and as perfect as possible a body—that’s why she is a model so she or he can show designer clothes and things, and for the designer it is more important his clothes are seen than the girl who is in it. But like I said, a good model has it all, personality as well.
FR: What do you think about the 90-60-90 centimeter measurements rule? Even a topmodel like Doutzen Kroes could never fit into any sample sizes.
WvR: Of course I think that is ridiculous and not true. A tall model like Linda does not have the same measurements as Kate, who is much shorter. As long as it looks good and you can get in the clothes, it's fine. When I see the shows now with 40 or 60 girls looking all the same I wonder…that is like being without personality. But I guess that’s what they are looking for right now. Things change all the time and it is not all like that. I think it's all good.
FR: Did you diet or follow a certain self-care regime or exercise program to stay in shape?
WvR: Are you kidding me? Being a model for me was not my main occupation and besides walking, which I love, I never exercised or dieted. Life is too short to follow other people’s ideas about what is right or wrong. As a matter of fact the best part of modeling was to be able to eat in first class restaurants.
FR: Lately more and more men appear dressed in woman’s clothing walking the catwalk. Although I find the creativity interesting, I also can’t help but feel that the boys’ shape is being pushed forward by the fashion industry, now even more blatantly than in the past. It gives off a signal that there’s something wrong with having a female shape and being perceived as good enough to present clothing created for women to wear. Do you agree or disagree? What are your views on this?
WvR: No, why should we be so pessimistic? The Romans wore skirts and the Egyptians and everywhere in different times. It was a scandal when women started to wear pants. Why should only a woman decorate herself? Equality on all sides, I say.
FR: What do you think about age discrimination, especially in the fashion and entertainment world? Do you agree that it’s insane that a woman is considered too old by the time she turns 30?
WvR: Well, that’s natural and not always like that. It depends again on who you are and it is not that she is considered old, but too old for the job. Again this can happen in many fields, its all part of it. But look at Linda E...
FR: Did you ever leave a photo shoot because you were not treated well?
WvR: Never, I was always treated like a queen.
FR: Have you ever been pressured to pose nude? What do you think about young girls and women being forced to do so, especially at the beginning of their modeling careers? And if they refuse, being threatened that they can now kiss their modeling career goodbye?
WvR: Well, nobody ever pressured me and as a matter of fact nobody ever asked me. I don't think anyone can "force" anyone to do that against one’s will, and if you have to kiss your modeling career goodbye because of that, I think you were not an interesting model in the first place. Some girls really like to pose nude and I think that is cool. There are things I see I really don't like and I never would pose with an iron mask on my face or a saddle on my back.
FR: There’s a dark side of the fashion industry that working professionals especially deny, who witness it happen yet prefer to look the other way. Stories of new models being exploited and at times forced into prostitution are very common. I have confronted many industry professionals with this fact, and every time I get a standard reply, “You are making things up!” while I am simply stating the facts. This attitude infuriates me, to say the least. What is your opinion on this? Do you feel that something as ethereal as fashion and beauty is even allowed to have such an ugly side?
WvR: The truth is that there are two sides to everything, and I am sure that those things exist and it is terrifying. Young pretty girls are good business and that in a way is related to fashion and beauty. But there are also many girls who like that and exploit it. In the end sex is a much bigger business than fashion. In reality it has nothing to do with fashion. Fashion is just fashion, but I can imagine that some bad people abuse the modeling world when they can. But I insist this is in all fields of work and companies, not only in modeling and fashion. The world is a dangerous place and if you happen to be beautiful and not that smart, bad things can happen. I also understand some photographers can abuse girls because they are young and think it is all part of it and are insecure. I heard about that, but again it was always like that except now there are many more girls who want to be models and dream of getting at the top and earning lots of money and fame and a good looking husband with lots of money.
FR: Topmodel Cara Delevingne lashed out at the fashion industry professionals not long ago, expressing her frustration at the fact that she didn’t understand “why those people lie so much.” I wonder why this is indeed the case. Did you have similar experiences?
WvR: No, not at all and I don't really know what you are talking about. Newspapers lie quite a bit; I know that from experience.
FR: What do you find more important in images: a beautiful illusion or an imperfect reality?
WvR: No idea before I see it or feel it.
FR: There are a lot of campaigns going on against the usage of Photoshop. Personally I don’t feel there’s anything wrong with perfecting an image, as long as it still stays realistic. I feel it’s not the use of this image alteration program, but the abuse of it that’s the problem. No one complains about Leonardo Da Vinci cutting away at women’s self-esteem by combining the best features of many women in portrayal of one, do they? Yet, you can surely say that paintings of the past have been far away from realistic. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think that women need to work more on their own self-esteem and confidence, on their inner worlds, instead of blaming yet another external source of all their misery and problems?
WvR: I love Photoshop but everything too is too. It may take away an expression or something like that but it also can make it better. So it all depends who is Photoshopping what.
FR: Has there been equally lots of retouching going back in the days?
WvR: Yes, of course. All covers and beauty pictures were retouched by hand, lots of work. I actually learned how to do it but the Photoshop is much more fun.
FR: We’ve come to a time when many don’t even believe that someone didn’t use any Photoshop. From personal experience I remember how photographers I worked with went mad for having to constantly tell the audience that it’s just a great model, great light, great makeup and styling, and no Photoshop. Often I’ll get messages in my inbox where a photographer I approached would turn me down, telling me that I had “too much Photoshop work”. Speaking of unfair, I wonder how we all could ever get to this point that we don’t even know when someone is real when we look at her image? What are your thoughts on this development? Is it troubling?
WvR: Just another part of the business.
FR: Do you also feel that parents must educate their daughters more on the images they see in magazines? That most of times it’s unrealistic to pursue them, and that it’s more powerful to focus on your own unique features instead? But yet, that there is nothing wrong with getting inspired to get the best out of yourself, internally and externally speaking?
WvR: Yes, of course it is good to show them their own beauty and let them know there are no rules. It's just a fashion magazine, after all.
FR: Did you ever have to explain to your own daughter that not all is what it seems in the fashion world?
WvR: My own daughter was never interested in the fashion world that way. She had her own fashion.
FR: You also have a son. I can imagine it was very different to raise a son, compared to a daughter? What has been the most significant difference?
WvR: There really is not much difference. Teach them all you can and to be a good person. Giving the example is most important I think.
FR: Did motherhood change you significantly? You became a mom at a pretty young age, and at the beginning of your modeling career. Was that frowned upon? Did someone tell you that you were throwing away a magnificent future in modeling when you became pregnant for the first time?
WvR: Well, I was 27 when I had my first baby and I really enjoyed that and took that time to just be and we went to Brazil. When the baby was due I went to Canada and no one told me it was not a good thing to be pregnant at that point of my career because nobody knew, I just disappeared. I see other models when they are pregnant and they gladly show it but also can imagine that some may think it interferes with their career and wait till they are older. Some wait too long.
FR: Now you’re also a vibrant grandmother of a thunderbolt of a granddaughter. Do you sometimes fear for the fact that our world becomes more and more unkind to women? All the television, music videos, films telling girls that it’s okay to act in certain self-dishonoring ways? That it’s okay to sell out? Focus only on your exterior?
WvR: Well indeed, sometimes I wonder. Sometimes it is shocking, but then again the girls seem to agree with it if they display that attitude and that is the thing that surprises me, and even more so when I see the kids like it. Times are different all the time and we don't know how this is going to end. Especially some, or most, of the music videos are loaded with those kind of images and it is so boring and distasteful. The way they talk too has changed so much , we hear the word f*ck all the time on TV. In the fifties, Lenny Bruce went to jail for using that word in one of his stand up performances. Both things are overboard. After all it is only a word, but on the other hand we don't like our kids to talk like that, and when some of these words are used in the right place it's ok but if it becomes every second word…
FR: The sixties and seventies were very vibrant. So much was happening, on so many levels! Lots of stuff going on in the realm of spirituality as well. Is there something you still carry with you from those days? Something that made you more beautiful inside? Did you experience a lot of inspiration in those days?
WvR: Yes, it was indeed a special time with inspiration everywhere. Money was not the God but rather love and freedom from the old, stiff rules. Now the money factor is triumphant. I think it was more spiritual then, and of course everything you experience becomes a part of yourself. I have no idea how young people feel now, but although in another way it must be the same. Each time has its highs and lows and when you are young and full of energy you take the bull by the horns and flow with the things.
FR: In 1968 American women staged the “burial of traditional womanhood” with a torchlight parade at a national cemetery, crowned a sheep “Miss America,” and threw bras, girdles and false eyelashes into a “freedom trashcan.” You just started modeling at this time. How did all those sudden changes influence the fashion world? Did it bring a lot of confusion and a need for many changes? Or was there just a big sense of freedom instead, as if anything was possible and allowed?
WvR: I don't know, I just always did my own thing as much as possible and yes, I guess to many women this brought a sensation of freedom.
FR: In those times, did daily life also experience women becoming more assertive? Or was there also a lot of resistance to change? And where did you stand in all of this?
WvR: Well, the resistance took a while and is still going on. Women still earn less than men while doing the same job, and in many countries the woman is still considered a lower being then a man. It is really amazing that we still stand for that. I guess things take time to change and it is changing. When I first started to make shoes I had a difficult time to tell the men in the factory what they had to do, they did not like that and it was hard to convince them to do it how I wanted, for they never experienced a woman telling them what to do. But like I said, things are changing for the better and yet, we still have a long way to go.
FR: Did all those changes in community also influence your own designs?
WvR: No.
FR: Next to being a topmodel, you’ve also become well known with your designs. Accessories for Yves Saint Laurent and Karl Lagerfeld. Tunique Unique that was sold all over the world and worn by many celebrities. Your own shoe-line “WILLY VAN ROOY” which was worn by the likes of Cher, Madonna, the Pointer sisters and many others. Private designer for Paula Abdul. Jewelry collection. Incredible amount of productivity and creativity—I adore this! What I would like to know is: do you have a muse that inspires you? A person, place, feeling, or something else? Do you need a muse and inspiration? Or do your creations mostly come from your own depths of being? Or maybe both?
WvR: Inspiration is everywhere if you are ready to be inspired. Of course if you design for someone else that person is the one that inspires you, but otherwise anything can be an inspiration at a certain moment. Family, friends, movies, art, nature or a cloud, whatever, it just happens. I do not think about it.
FR: Do you sometimes get your inspiration from dreams as well?
WvR: It is possible. I don't often remember my dreams. They have to be really extreme for me to remember them.
FR: Fashion designer Vivienne Westwood once said that she gets her inspiration from stuff that’s totally opposite of her interests range. How do you feel about this approach? Do you perhaps also share it?
WvR: That’s funny! I really like what she does. [Perhaps a collaboration in near future? ed.]
FR: You are married to a painter: Salvador Maron. Are you his Muse? And does his art also inspire you with your designs?
WvR: Yes, my husband always inspires me and I hope I do the same to him.
FR: Being married for 40 years seems surrealistic in a world where more than half of all marriages fail after just a couple years. What is the most important advice you would like to give couples in terms of allowing love to grow with every passing year? Do you feel that people give up too soon? Are people too focused on the ideal image of love, which never proves to be what they expected?
WvR: Well, everything has to be worked on, it does not come for free. I do think some give up too soon, but then again when love is gone there is no way to get it back. It is wonderful if you feel good together for many years and get old together, share memories and know each other so well and still are in love.
FR: Back to fashion. Do you think it’s important for fashion to focus more on eco-friendly and animal cruelty-free designs?
WvR: Yes, but not in exaggeration.
FR: Do you have a favorite designer of all time? And who is your favorite contemporary or upcoming designer? And why do you prefer them?
WvR: It is hard to say because with time you see things differently. YSL I always liked a lot and still like what Hedi Slimane is doing. I also like Gaultier a lot but then again there are many working then, and working now who made or make wonderful things. The art is to make it also wearable not only play a dress up.
FR: Which artist from the past would you love to meet and have an in-depth conversation with? Might this person still be alive?
WvR: I have no wish for that.
FR: You were born in Holland and lived in London, New York, Paris, Milan, Ibiza, India. Now you reside in Los Angeles. You are also fluent in Dutch, French, Spanish and English. You can draw, sew, paint, photograph, work with Photoshop. I can imagine many find you an inspiration! But reality is also that you must have come across jealous and envious people. What is your advice at how to deal with them?
WvR: Not dealing with them.
FR: And what is your advice for dealing with jealous girlfriends and wives of the photographer you work with as a model—women who see in every model a threat to their relationship? From my own experience, I know they lack any solidarity with other women, plus I observe frequently that they are simply not in their place, yet holding on to it with all their might. Plus the guy also probably gave enough reason to backup their fears on top of that…and still! Very annoying, and many models will agree with me it’s very counterproductive. But perhaps you have another vision on this problem, or a good piece of advice? For if I notice the signs, I simply cancel the shoot—it has cost me great opportunities.
WvR: I don't think I ever was in a situation like that. I worked with very professional photographers and had my family life and had no reason or ambition to provoke anything. If there was jealousy, I did not notice.
FR: What is your vision of the future of femininity? In what kind of a world would you like to see your granddaughter grow up in? Do you find it important to contribute as much as you can to make this a reality?
WvR: Of course the wish of every parent or grandparent is that their children grow up in a world of peace, understanding and equality. We have to teach them to do all they can to make that a reality with any, even the smallest, contributions. The same goes for all of us: we are each a person but together we are Humanity and we should maybe think more in that direction and feel part of a big thing that is moving forward.
FR: Did you leave Holland because you felt there weren’t enough chances present? Often many musicians and artists tell me they left Holland because they couldn’t get anything off the ground, and that they were done with having to deal with all the envy and lack of chances presented to them. One interviewer even called Holland “sleepy” (he is from England) and I made it probably even worse by answering that interview question that there was indeed not much room for innovation and that copycats get the most applause in this country. So now I am wondering whether this was a big reason for you to leave? Not enough originality? Too much business with people with no vision? Do you think your life would have been a totally different one had you played it safe and stayed?
WvR: Exactly. Holland seemed small and small-minded at the time, very grey. And Paris, London or New York looked sparkling. There was not much going on in Holland and they liked to stay with the old. So if your ideas were different you needed to explore different places. Things have changed a lot but it is still a small country.
FR: Where do you see yourself in 20 years? Your own evolution and vision? Both personally and professionally?
WvR: Well, if I'm still here in 20 years I will be full of wrinkles and hopefully still have a clear mind. But that is maybe a lot to ask.
FR: Are there any plans for a photography book containing the best of your modeling images? Do you also plan to ever write an autobiography?
WvR: Personally I think a book about my modeling pictures is very boring but if I can put it all in an autobiography, that would be great. I am working on something like that and would like to make a book about my shoe-designing time. I am also working on a documentary—so much to do!
FR: What piece of advice would you like to give to women of all ages? And if you were to give any advice to young women, what would it be?
WvR: Be true to yourself. You are as good as any man or any other human being. Feel beautiful because if you do it will shine through and that, in turn, will make people feel good, which will make you feel good. What goes around comes around. Love and Peace.
© Elektra Dekker / Femininity Redefined 2015, all rights reserved for all media
For more on Willy van Rooy:
• Special thanks to Shannon Miller (editor) •